Day of the Lord
Grok take on this reversion. Also see Grok take
on GMW
Updated
Starts
with: the sun will be
darkened, the moon will not give its light, stars will
fall from the sky (Joel
Earthquake #1:
As
a call to arms we start out the vengeance of the Lord with voices and thunderings and lightnings and
the first earthquake.
Earth
reel to and fro: D&C 45:48, 88:87, Haggai 2:6-7,22, Isa
24:20, Heb 12:26
Four Angels standing on the four corners of the earth: Rev 7:1
"AND after these things I
saw four angels• standing on the four corners of the earth, holding
the four winds• of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the
earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."
Could the Four Angels standing on the four
corners of the earth be an actual sign in heaven? What I mean is an
astronomical alignment of four stars or planets. John Pratt identified
these four angels as the Royal Stars. (Regulus, Antares, Fomalhaut and Aldebaran) (John P. Pratt. Divine Calendars:
Astronomical Witnesses of Sacred Events, AstroCal.:
Page 201) I understand that the alignment of these stars with a typical
alignment like the solstice/equinox won't happen until around 3100 AD, but what
about other alignments? If we read revelations with the understanding of
these signs being astronomical events what other type of alignments might make
sense?
Silence in heaven for the space of 1/2; hour: D&C 88:95, Rev 8:1 (One
theory is that the 1/2 hours is 20.83 years long [one year to God is 1,000
years to man] and this event starts the 21 years and D&C 88:95, where the
face of the Lord is unveiled, is the end of that period. Possible place for the
Rapture...Pre-Tribulation See event just prior to second coming below)
Brother McConkie also
leans upon the possibility that this is a 21 year period, but questions if the
tribulations come after this period, rather than occurring during the period:
"And
when the Lamb "had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven
about the space of half an hour." If the time here mentioned is "the
Lord's time" in which one day is a thousand years, the half hour would be
some twenty-one of our years. (Abr. 3:4; 2 Pet. 3:8.) Could this be interpreted
to mean that such a period will elapse after the commencement of the seventh
thousand-year period and before the outpouring of the woes about to be named?" : Bruce R. McConkie, The
Millennial Messiah, p.382
According to Orson Pratt this quiet period
requires the lack of activity even trumps and such that represent the
tribulation events. This would support Brother McConkie's
view that this period precedes the tribulation period, but that being the case
the unveiling of the Lord needs to follow the end of the silence period. To me
it makes more sense that the period is the tribulation period. Something to keep in mind. :
".."Immediately
after the sounding of this trump there will be silence in heaven for the space
of half an hour.....During the period of silence all things are perfectly
still; no angels flying during that half hour; no trumpets sounding; no noise
in the heavens above; ...." : Journal of
Discourses, Vol.16, p.328, Orson Pratt,
end of Silence in heaven for the space of half an hour, the face of the Lord
unveiled : D&C 88:95 (Possible end of the 21 year period started with
Rev 8:1 see note above )
Sign of Son of Man in Heaven / great sign in heaven all people see it
together Math 24:30, D&C 88:93
"Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the
temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead
Sea be healed. …all this must be done before the Son of Man will make his
appearance. …..then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in
heaven." (Joseph Fielding Smith. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith. Section Six 1843–44, p.286)
Notice the placement of this event. I will also comment on
the last portion of this in my section. In this statement Joseph went on
to declare that the Prophet will know what the sign is when it is given.
Brother McConkie also touches on this;
" Among the heavenly signs and wonders of the last
days, one is to stand out particularly as the harbinger of the coming of our
Lord. It is singled out and known as the sign of the Son of Man. …….. When this
sign is given, however, it will be known to and identified by the Prophet of
God on earth. (Teachings, pp. 279-280.)" (Bruce R. McConkie. Mormon Doctrine. p.712)
In addition to the Prophet identifying the sign the elect
will recognize the sign. Brother McConkie goes
on to say;
"After the abomination of desolation sweeps Jerusalem
in the last days; after the city is taken, its houses rifled, its women
ravished, and half its inhabitants taken into captivity; after the sun and the
moon refuse to give light and the stars fall from heaven -- then will appear
one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. At this time, the Lord in his
wisdom has not seen fit to reveal the nature of this sign, though from what
follows it is clear that the elect will recognize it as the heavenly portent
given to announce the coming of their King." (Bruce R. McConkie. The Mortal Messiah. Vol.3, p.448)
I'm not sure if Brother McConkie
was aware of the following quote from President Woodruff however, some have
taken this definition to be the sign of the son of man spoken of. Let's
take a look;
"… I became wrapped in vision. I was like Paul; I did
not know whether I was in the body or out of the body. A personage appeared to
me and showed me the great scenes that should take place in the last days. …. I
saw seven golden lamps set in the heavens, representing the various
dispensations of God to man—a sign that would appear before the coming of
Christ." (Wilford Woodruff. The Discourses
of Wilford Woodruff. p.285)
>>>>
Another possible take on what the sign could be: (See section Greater Exodus )
Avraham Gileadi “…Jehovah will form a cloud by day and a mist glowing with fire by night…”
From Eddie Chumney (found on youtube 7/1/22) The sign will be the greater part of the Gathering of Israel which will be with a cloud by date and pillar of fire by night that all the world would see……..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg21MYS2m1E
https://yeshiva.hebroots.org/the-greater-exodus/
Now at the end of the 3 1/2 year period the Two prophets are killed and
lie dead in the street for 3.5 days: Do they start the Morning of the first
resurrection?
Looking at the sequence found in D&C 88:96 (Also 45:45) the
saints will be caught up prior to Christ's visit to the Jews at the Mount of
Olives just after the Battle of Armageddon so the next event could be one in
the same with the event listed right after that. Also Bro McConkie
points out that the Saints are caught up after the unveiling of the Lord:
"All these things, particularly the hidden and undefined
period of silence, are somewhat enigmatic. ..... immediately after shall the
curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up,
and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled." Then -- and these events, of
necessity, are chronological -- then "the saints that are upon the earth,
who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him." These are
they of whom Paul and others have spoken, as we have heretofore seen. They all
shall abide the day and receive an inheritance in the holy city." : Bruce
R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p.635 - p.636
Prophets are raised up Rev 11:11-12
Four trumps of the resurrection
Rapture:
Math 24:31, 1 Thes 4:15-18, D&C 45:45, 88:96,
Saints Caught up/ Morning of the first resurrection, First Fruits, angels
Trump; Math 24:39-42, Luke 17:29-36, 1 Thes
4:16-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52, D&C 45:45-46,
D&C 88:96. 133:56.
Take
note of the placement of this event. Many believe there will be a rapture that
will preclude having to go through the refiner's fire (Pre-Tribulation).
Nelson Walters, (Rapture: Case Closed?, page 113) attributes this view to Three
scriptures, Rev 3:10, 1 Thes 1:10 and 2 Peter 2:9.
Prior to reading His book I found this was based on Luke 21:36, they key phrase
being ...escape all these things.. (John Hagee,
Four Blood Moons, page 78) Also according to Hagee
the post-Tribulation view comes from 1 Cor
15:51-52 "...at the last Trumpet" putting the rapture after the
tribulations (John Hagee, Four Blood Moons, page
89). There is also a less favored
Mid-Tribulation view, at the mid point of the 7 year period, of which the
So who
qualifies for this? Many Christians are counting on this event and look
forward to this day. Who will be included in those who are caught up (raptured) ? My studies to date reflect an understanding
that it is they who qualify for the Celestial Kingdom (by qualify I do not
limit it to those who have completed all the necesary
requirements but also include the good men of the living who would have
done so if given the opportunity as understood in D&C 137:7-8 )
There is limited LDS material dealing with this topic but in line with
Brother McConkies teachings those qualifying for
lower kingdoms will not be present at the beginning of the Millenium
and thus would not qualify for this event. (Current understanding: The
"Church" will be The Church of the Firstborn, the saints who have the
mark in their forehead (אֵ֥ת
:Aleph Tav (Alpha and Amega):
text hidden in the original Hebrew identifies who qualifies for the mark, and
in and of itself is a mark) Revelation
7:3; 9:4; 14:1; 22:4... More to follow as it becomes available. Also see
section below: Wicked burned ...)
According
to Steve Cioccolanti
(Discover
Ministries: Discover.org.au) The last trumpet spoken
of is not the trumpets of revelations but the last trump of the feast of
trumpets , Yom Teruah or Rosh Hashannah,
it falls on the first day of Etanim, (also known
traditionally as Tishri) which is the seventh month (I.E. September 14
2015) on the Jewish lunar Calendar. If He is accurate then we have a
fixed date assigned to the rapture. He also looks for this to happen
prior to the tribulation events.
Looking at a statement by Willford Woodruff
(Journal of Discourses 18:192) "...there must be a place
of safety for the people of God while his judgments are abroad in the earth,
for the judgments of God will visit the earth.." looks like the
Pre-Tribulation option is off the table.
At one point I had the section The Marvelous Work and a Wonder / Great and Marvelous Work 1 Neph 14:7 (Part of or same as His strange act? Isaiah 28:21, D&C 95:4; 101:95 ) (The meat of this whole section moved to the Day of the Lord 10/31/2018 based on 1 Neph 14:17. ) Looking at 1 Nephi 14:17 the Day of Wrath is where the GMW starts...???? This seemed to be out of place. So we now have a new web page covering this which may happen during this time frame or not….Looking at the full section of 1 Neph 14 looks like the focus of the work is that spelled out By John the Revelator the greater part follows below.. )
"The appearance at the Mount of Olives. The Savior’s appearance
to the Jews will occur when Jerusalem and its environs are besieged by many
nations. At the close of a long and costly war, known as the battle of
Armageddon, the Jews will flee for safety to the Mount of Olives. There the
Savior will make His appearance. (See D&C 45:48–53; 77:15; 133:35;
Revelation 11:1–13; Zechariah 14:1–9).
Elder Parley P. Pratt summarized the events associated with that appearance: “Zechariah, chapter 14, has told us much concerning the great battle and overthrow of the nations that fight against Jerusalem, and he has said, in plain words, that the Lord shall come at the very time of the overthrow of that army; yes, in fact, even while they are in the act of taking Jerusalem, and have already succeeded in taking one-half the city, spoiling their houses, and ravishing their women. Then, behold, their long-expected Messiah, suddenly appearing, shall stand upon the Mount of Olives, a little east of Jerusalem, to fight against those nations and deliver the Jews. Zechariah says the Mount of Olives shall cleave in twain, from east to west, and one-half of the mountain shall remove to the north while the other half falls off to the south, suddenly forming a very great valley into which the Jews shall flee for protection from their enemies as they fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah; while the Lord cometh and all the saints with Him. Then will the Jews behold that long, long-expected Messiah, coming in power to their deliverance, as they always looked for him. He will destroy their enemies, and deliver them from trouble at the very time they are in the utmost consternation, and about to be swallowed up by their enemies. But what will be their astonishment when they are about to fall at the feet of their Deliverer and acknowledge him their Messiah! They discover the wounds which were once made in his hands, feet, and side; and on inquiry, at once recognize Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews, the man so long rejected. Well did the prophet say, they shall mourn and weep, every family apart, and their wives apart. But, thank heaven, there will be an end to their mourning; for he will forgive their iniquities and cleanse them from uncleanness. Jerusalem shall be a holy city from that time forth.” (Voice of Warning, pp. 32–33.)" : http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/dc-in/dc-in-200-g-i.htm#h
Quake
#2
Arm
of the lord falls
We now reach the phase of the Lord's work where His arm falls in
judgment. The time to decide which side of the fence you are sitting on
is over. The judgment begins.
Lord Preaches his own sermon: D&C 43:25-26, 88:88-92
Seven Angels set: Rev. 8:2, 15:1 6-7, D&C 77:12
Trump/Plague #1: Rev. 8:7, 16:2
With
the first trump we have hail and fire mingled with blood. 1/3 part of the
trees burnt up along with all green grass. The first plague brings noisome and
grievous sore on all who have the mark of the beast.
A devastating hailstorm will destroy the crops of the earth: D&C 29:16
causing widespread famine
Trump/Plague #2: Rev. 8:8-9, 16:3
The
second trump brings 1/3 part of the sea became blood and 1/3 living in the sea
die 1/3 of ships destroyed. The second plague brings the blood of a dead man to
the sea and every living soul in the sea dies. I’m not sure if this ties
to the trump and the plague is only referencing the 1/3 of the sea that was
affected or if the plague is after the trump.
D&C 61
15-16;Wherefore,
the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. And it shall be
said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the
waters, but he that is upright in heart.
The
third trump brings the Wormwood star to 1/3 of the rivers and the fountains of
waters making them bitter, many men die. The third plague brings blood to
the rivers and fountains of water making them blood for the wicked to drink as
a righteous act of the Lord.
Trump/Plague #4: Rev. 8:12, 16:8-9
The
fourth trump brings 1/3 part of the sun, moon and starts smitten dark and a 1/3
part of the day also. The fourth plague brings a scorching of men with fire by
the sun and they repented not.
Woe #1/Trump & Plague #5: Rev 8:13, 9:1-11,16:10-11
The
beginning of three woes. The fifth trump brings the key to the bottomless pit.
The pit is opened and the locust reign for five months. Their mission is
to torment men that do not have the mark of god in their foreheads. The fifth
plague is against the seat of the beast and they gnawed their tongues and
repented not.
Woe #2/Trump & Plague #6: Rev 8:13, 9:13-21, 16:12-16
The
sixth trump brings four bound angels to the great Euphrates river. They
set free an army of 200,000,000 horsemen for 1 year. 1 month, 1day and 1 hour
to slay 1/3 part of men. The sixth plague dries up the river Euphrates and
prepares the way of the King of the East. The 3 unclean spirits perform
miracles and gathers support for Armageddon.
Woe #3 / Trump 7 & Plague 7 Rev 11:14-19, 16:17-21
The
seventh woe and trump open a seen of rejoicing in heaven, the kingdoms of the
world have become the kingdoms of the Lord.
"desolating scourge" that will reach plague proportions: D&C
29:19
parents and children seeking each other's lives: Mark 13:12, HC 3:391
Full end to all nations: D&C 87:6
Quake #3:
The great deep shall roll back into the north countries, Continents become
one again. D&C 133:23-24
Wicked
burned: Isaiah 24:6, Mal. 3:2, 4: 1, 3 Ne. 25:
1, D&C 64:23-24, 101:24-25, 133: 64
<>
Many may think that this is not a argued section, and to that I say, you could
be correct, however I do want to take the opportunity to return to where we
started. Let's return to Section 45 of the D&C the 44th verse.
What does it mean to be cut off? Now we get into the debate.
Many
Christians, I think the majority, have this key event in mind when the topic of
the second coming is brought up. Where the discussion goes from there is what
we need to examine. You have the "Pre-Trib
Rapture"ists that jump over this and all of the
tribulations (with the exception of pre-wrath and post-trib
tribulationists). Other Christians, without
having looked into it, live with the hope that this event doesn't apply to
them. Indeed many of the "Born Again Christians" firmly believe
that since their acceptance of Christ as their savior they are protected from
ever falling into this category. Let’s examine who qualifies as
"Wicked" for this event. Brother McConkie
points out;
"Malachi asked: "Who may abide the day of his
coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth?"
(Mal. 3:2.) In answer he said that Christ would come in judgment and be a swift
witness against sorcerers, adulterers, false swearers,
and all who live after the manner of the world, all who live a telestial law. All these -- the proud and the wicked --
would be as stubble when "the day cometh, that shall burn as an
oven." (Mal. 3; 4.)" (Bruce R. McConkie.
Mormon Doctrine. p.697)
The wicked are "those who live a telestial
law". This should be clear to most LDS readers. Let's add to
this with analysis from Elder Pratt;
" … the subject of the coming of the Messiah, and the
ushering in of that glorious day called the Millennium, … all the wicked will
be destroyed from the earth by overwhelming judgments of God and by fire, at
the time of his coming… cleansed by fire from its wicked inhabitants, as it
once was by water; and this burning will include the priests as well as people;
all but a few shall be burned." (Parley P. Pratt. A Voice of
Warning. p.54)
Elder Pratt adds; "The earth will be cleansed by fire...
as it once was by water". He went on to add; "this burning will
include priests...all but a few will be burned". Will we also be
counted as the wicked as in the days of Noah. Will our pride not allow us
to be counted worthy of the first resurrection? let's' add a key point to
the list. From Joseph Smith we have;
" The prophets all through the ages, when predicting
the time of the second coming of our Lord, have spoken of the destruction of
the wicked. Isaiah in his twenty-fourth chapter said: "Therefore hath the
curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore
the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." Malachi speaks
of the day coming that shall burn as an oven; "and all the proud, yea, and
all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them
up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them
neither root nor branch." (Joseph Fielding Smith. Church History and
Modern Revelation. Vol 1, p.145)
The root or branch talked about is reference to eternal
increase, which comes only to those in the Celestial Kingdom. We know
that those that will be caught up to meet Christ, qualify for the Celestial
Kingdom, and will avoid the burning fire. Elder McConkie
pointed out that those living Telestial lives would
burn. From the Institute manual "The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His
Apostles" we have the follwoing on this
topic:
(22-8) Matthew 24:40 . Why Is It That One Is Destroyed and
the Other Left Alone
When the Lord Returns?
"Thus those who shall abide the day, who shall remain on the
earth when it is
transfigured ( D. & C. 63:20–21 ), are those who are honest and upright and
who
are living at least that law which would take them to the terrestrial kingdom
of
glory in the resurrection. Anyone living by telestial
standards can no longer
remain on earth and so cannot abide the day.
"Hence we find Malachi listing among those who shall not abide the day the
following: sorcerers; adulterers; false swearers;
those who oppress the
hireling, the widow, and the fatherless in their wages; those who lead men away
from the truth; those who do not fear God; members of the true Church who do
not
pay an honest tithing; they that work wickedness; and the proud. All these, he
says, shall be as stubble when the day comes that shall burn as an oven. ( Mal.
3 ; 4 ; D. & C. 64:23–25 .)" (McConkie,
DNTC, 1:669.
I need help understanding this. Those who qualify for the Celestial kingdom will be caught up, those who qualify for the Telestial will be burned. Where does that leave the Terrestrial beings? From the above McConkie statement "... who shall remain on the earth when it is transfigured.." may lead you with the understanding that those who quailify to be in the Terrestrial kingdom will remain on the earth even though the earth is to undergo transfiguration and be cleansed by fire prior to the millenium? Seems at odds with the following statement: “......Following this great event, and after the Lord and the righteous who are caught up to meet him have descended upon the earth, there will come to pass another resurrection. This may be considered as a part of the first, although it comes later. In this resurrection will come forth those of the terrestrial order, who were not worthy to be caught up to meet him, but who are worthy to come forth to enjoy the millennial reign” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:295–97).
Grok help provides: <<<<<
06/08/2025>>>>>
Reconciling the Statements
The apparent contradiction
arises from the question of whether Terrestrial beings are spared the burning
(and remain on the earth during the Millennium) or are destroyed
alongside the Telestial wicked and resurrected later.
Let’s break it down:
Clarification on the Fate of Terrestrial Beings
Based on the above analysis, here’s a
clear picture of the fate of Terrestrial beings:
Addressing the Apparent Contradiction
The tension between McConkie’s
and Smith’s statements is resolved by recognizing that they are addressing
different aspects of the same doctrine:
There is no indication in either
statement that Terrestrial beings are burned with the wicked. Instead, both
sources suggest that Terrestrial beings are spared the destruction and
participate in the Millennium, either as living individuals who abide the day
or as resurrected beings who come forth later.
Conclusion
The scriptures and prophetic teachings
make it clear that the “wicked” who are burned are
those living a Telestial law, not those who qualify
for Terrestrial glory. Terrestrial beings—honorable and upright
individuals—will either remain on the earth (if alive) or be resurrected later
(if deceased) to enjoy the Millennium. Only those who qualify for the
<<<<< no
one left behind view>>>>>>
scriptural basis for the pre-wrath
rapture and the cleansing leaving no one on earth includes Matthew 24:29–31, 2
Peter 3:10–12, Revelation 6:12–17, Revelation 7:9–14, Isaiah 24:1–6, Luke
17:26–30, 1 Thessalonians 5:2–9, and Zephaniah 1:14–18. These passages support
the rapture’s timing (post-tribulation, pre-wrath) and a fiery, devastating
judgment leaving the earth uninhabited. The “no one left” claim is an
interpretive leap, most strongly tied to 2 Peter 3:10–12 and Isaiah 24:1–6.
Monte Judah’s pre-wrath rapture view
aligns with Marvin Rosenthal, Robert Van Kampen, and
Alan Kurschner on the rapture’s timing (sixth seal,
post-tribulation, pre-wrath) and core scriptures (Matthew 24:29–31, Revelation
6:12–17, 1 Thessalonians 5:2–9). However, his claim that “no one will be left
on earth” during a post-rapture cleansing, based on 2 Peter 3:10–12, Isaiah
24:1–6, and Zephaniah 1:14–18, is unique and not shared by the others, who
allow for survivors entering the millennium.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< end Grok >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>